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标题: 话说公校老师罢工的事 [打印本页]

作者: sinclair    时间: 2014-6-16 08:27     标题: 话说公校老师罢工的事

http://www.theprovince.com/life/ ... /9937640/story.html
刚才看到有个老师给省长christy clark的公开信,提到BC政府给私利学校的funding逐年增加(上面link提到,自2005年,政府给私校的funding增加54%,同期公校的funding增加17%)。另外政府给cabinet members的工资增加了18%(不知道是几年)。

google了一下christy clark,才知道省长的儿子是上私校,难怪对私校青眼有加。当然私校也是提供教育,要不要用纳税人的钱给私校funding另当别论,但是至少应该一视同仁吧。所以老师们的诉求也似乎有正义的一面。

但是本次罢工有意思的是,新闻报道里面工会把工资要求放在首位,老师们被描绘成一群贪婪的家伙。




仔细想想,其实也不能说新闻报道有欠公允。老师的工会当然是给老师争取福利。




看完这些文章,有点disillusioned的感觉,什么是学生的best interest。不论是老师还是政府其实都不关心。


作者: lxrsix    时间: 2014-6-16 08:38

提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
作者: MrGrant    时间: 2014-6-16 09:10

体制是否有问题?是否应该取消工会?
作者: nickguo    时间: 2014-6-16 09:50

我有钱我也送孩子去读私校, 所以clark送自己的孩子去私校可以理解, 她能负担, 所以以这个作为攻击她的理由, 牵强...

关于罢工, 这个是老师们手上的底牌, 你也没有法子..这也是他们的权利, 应该尊重

至于工会关乎孩子的利益, 关乎下一个generation的成长这种屁话, 就不要说了, 工会关心的还是自己的利益, 拿孩子当做谈判的chips罢了

BC政府也不是什么好鸟, 这个争议几年了, 但是仍然没有解决, 除了双方都互相操蛋以外, 政府根本都没有把解决labour dispute放在首要位置, 他们把老师逼到了全面罢工的境地...

最后的解决办法无非是老师继续涨工资, 教育继续扯淡, 政府继续空头支票

我本人也在教育系统工作, 虽然不是老师, 但是我们的pay freeze持续了3年, 前年唯一一次涨了1.5%, 不明白了, 老师有什么特别的地方, 可以要求如此的涨幅...

归根结底还是钱在作祟, 这无可厚非, 人是自私的动物, 看不惯是工会那套为下一代的Bullshit罢了
作者: freedom_2008    时间: 2014-6-16 10:06

"学生的best interest"?  我觉得双方,特别是教师一方,不仅不关心学生的best interest,而且是在拿孩子们利益做他们的要挟武器。 懂英文的也可以点看下面网址:

比较客观的BC教师十三年争利历史的综合报道


其实政府的钱绝大多数是我们大家上税交来的。 我听说有几个糊涂(故意)家长示威支持老师,还有一些学生示威不满怠工,我不明白为什么没有人示威让老师工会明白我们上税人可以支持其他合理要求,但不愿再涨税去付他们的13%涨资要求。  如果政府同意了除涨13%工资之外的其他要求,教师们还再反对的话,那他们就太没道理了,会大失民意。

如有人想示威或贴牌子反对教师罢工的话,可以用下面或更简练的话:

-(Teachers' pay comes from tax payers) We don't have 13.5% pay increase for next 4 years, why should you?

-(We agree with your other requests, but)We don't want to pay more tax for your 13.5% pay increase!

- If you care about your pay increase, go on strike; If you care about children, go back to school!

- Please don't use our children as pawns!
作者: freedom_2008    时间: 2014-6-16 14:48

光在这儿发牢骚没什么用,我把下面的罢工抗议贴在 UsedVictoria 和 Criagslist 及 Kijiji上 community 版块里了:

To Teachers (给教师们的话):
- Teachers' pay comes from all tax payers. We don't have 13.5% pay increase for next 4 years, why should you?(教师们的工资是所有上税人付的,大家别人不会有13.5%的四年涨资,为什么教师们要要求那么多呢?)

- We agree with your other requests wrt students, but We don't want to pay more tax for your 13.5% pay increase!
(我们同意教师们有关学生的其他要求,但不愿意为教师们13.5%的涨资要求而加税!)

- If you care about your pay increase, go on strike; If you care about children, go back to school!
(如教师们只想着自己涨资,那你们罢工好了;如教师们真还记得孩子们的话,请你们回到学校教课!)

- Please don't use our children as pawns!
(请教师们不要用无辜的孩子们当谈判的棋子儿!)

From concerned tax payers and parents
(发自关心的上税人们和家长们)

p.s. facts on http://thetyee.ca/News/2014/05/21/BC-Teacher-Bargaining/
作者: nickguo    时间: 2014-6-16 16:23

Screw the kids, that's all
作者: freedom_2008    时间: 2014-6-16 17:31

引用:
原帖由 nickguo 于 2014-6-16 16:23 发表
Screw the kids, that's all (这些人都是在毁害孩子们)
If we let them do that without saying anything, we ourselves are just as guilty.(如果我们一声不响地看着他们这样做,那我们自己不是也同样有罪吗?)
作者: freedom_2008    时间: 2014-6-16 17:46

另外上私校的家长们也是上税人。我们以前在安省上税时要写清楚是支持哪个(公校,私校还是教会学校)学校,省里会按比例给各个教育系统拨款。 所以如果上私校的学生多了,私校收到的省拨款也会相应多一些的。
作者: freedom_2008    时间: 2014-6-16 17:50

引用:
原帖由 flyingex 于 2014-6-16 17:41 发表
为什么不能支持老师呢?华人爱上好学校,新来的到这打听的第一件事就是哪个学校排名靠前。给四万块钱肯定留住一个好老师。
你要是自己自愿给教师涨资捐钱,那是你个人的自由。 这里公校教师的福利已经好的不太有留不住人的问题,外人(比如外省再好的老师)如没有关系削尖了脑袋也进不去的。另外学校名次可能和小区的居民情况有更多的关系,和是否有(像在中国的一样的)私人捐款没什么关系。
作者: David989    时间: 2014-6-17 12:29

应该组织游行反老师罢工.
作者: lshw    时间: 2014-6-17 19:02     标题: 回复 14# 的帖子

要是有喊一声,俺们也去!
作者: mm0220    时间: 2014-6-17 20:55

看来大家都深受其害啊~~~~~~九月开学不会接着罢工吧?都怕怕了
作者: Vic1234    时间: 2014-6-17 21:59     标题: 为什么不能支持老师呢?

为什么不能支持老师呢?

华人爱上好学校,新来的到这打听的第一件事就是哪个学校排名靠前。给四万块钱肯定留住一个好老师。
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

really 给四万块钱肯定留住一个好老师。 are you newcomer ????????????????????????????????????????????????????
作者: Vic1234    时间: 2014-6-17 22:00     标题: 为什么不能支持老师呢?

为什么不能支持老师呢?

华人爱上好学校,新来的到这打听的第一件事就是哪个学校排名靠前。给四万块钱肯定留住一个好老师。

-----------------------------------------------------------
You really should learn about how much those Teacher get pay, they make much much more than you think
作者: freedom_2008    时间: 2014-6-17 22:14

虽然大家都在交税,也应该有不少华人孩子在公校上学,但看来这坛子里支持示威(反对教师罢工)的可能比支持猎熊的要少???  

我今天上午在 CBC News 网站上也贴了帖子提倡上税人和家长示威反对罢工,现有13票支持(在那段时间有支持的帖子里还算多的),也收到了从 UsedVictoria 回来的几个支持邮件。 但面对上千名能说会道的罢工教师,没有百人以上和多个种族参加的示威是不太实际的。     

本人嘴巴较笨怯场,一向很少参加公共活动,这次从北京回来之前又刚扭了腰,行动不便。 不知道这里是否有能人或有组织能号召和集合更多民众? 或是收集大家签名送“停止罢工请愿书”到媒介和教师工会?

还要说明一句,个人觉得反对教师罢工并不等于就支持政府(是两码事儿),只不过是在这件事儿上要首先保护孩子们的权利,觉得教师和政府谈判不该拿孩子们当棋子儿出气。
作者: mm0220    时间: 2014-6-18 07:35     标题: 回复 19# 的帖子

支持!
作者: 小宝妈    时间: 2014-6-18 10:43

眼看着就要省试了,孩子的学习得不到老师的帮助,还有几个大的作业要赶到他们罢工前的一,二天交,儿子做到晚上2点多才做完,你们说我们这些做父母的能不心疼吗?同时也痛恨他们对学生不负责任的这种行为,所以我坚决的反对罢工,真心的希望有人能出面组织反对罢工的游行。
作者: mm0220    时间: 2014-6-18 12:06

可是我们也要上班,怎么办哪?
作者: lshw    时间: 2014-6-18 14:23

引用:
原帖由 mm0220 于 2014-6-18 12:06 发表
可是我们也要上班,怎么办哪?
国庆期间最好,大家时间合适。
作者: mm0220    时间: 2014-6-18 14:30     标题: 回复 23# 的帖子

那孩子呢?
作者: vicgolfer    时间: 2014-6-18 15:42

今天经过不少学校,老师们在外面举着牌子来回走,没有听见一辆车鸣喇叭表示支持的,这就是民意。
作者: freedom_2008    时间: 2014-6-18 16:02

上次(两年前?)他们罢工时抗着牌子站路口,我每次开车路过时都要伸胳膊们出去给他们送一个”two thumbs down"  (是另一半在握着方向盘呵)。


大家如没时间示威,收集签名送(反对罢工)请愿书也是一种表态方法。

图片附件: two thumbs down.jpg (2014-6-18 16:02, 2.76 KB) / 该附件被下载次数 45
http://victoriachinese.org/bbs/attachment.php?aid=42360


作者: mm0220    时间: 2014-6-18 18:19

哪里有?我去签个
作者: Llf27    时间: 2014-6-18 21:28

对于教师用罢工的方式来解决加薪的问题,太不人意了,这会让孩子们怎么看呢?
作者: 天邊的虹    时间: 2014-6-18 22:47     标题: 回复 27# 的帖子

無論示威還是簽名,算咱一份
作者: sinclair    时间: 2014-6-24 14:12     标题: 这篇文章是前前前教育厅长写的。

BCTF has ruined the professionalism of teachers
The Province
Tuesday, June 24, 2014
Page A10
By Dr. Patrick McGeer
The provincial government must cure the warfare that has been plaguing the school system in British Columbia for decades. Dealing with the current impasse in labour negotiations is only the first step. It does not solve the long-term problem.
That will require legislation declaring that education is an essential service and that strikes are no longer permitted. Then the requirement that membership in the B.C. Teachers Federation as a condition for teaching in a B.C. public school should be eliminated. That way teachers can follow their conscience and will no longer be obliged to obey their union leaders.
There is more to teaching than tutoring in reading, writing and arithmetic. Teachers need to set an example that students can look up to and admire.
The atmosphere of confrontation that pervades our school system today demeans teachers, handicaps students and undermines attitudes. How can teachers take pride in their work when their union demands they abandon their students? And how can they prepare their graduates to enter the workforce, when the attitudes toward their job and the reliability of turning up for work become paramount?
When I was B.C.'s minister of education, a strike by teachers was unthinkable, not just by the government, but by the teachers themselves. They took pride in being professionals. But if a walkout had taken place during my watch, my recommendation would have been to deal with the strikers the same way that Ronald Reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers - thank them for their service and hire replacements.
Throughout the century, teachers have been well treated in B.C. That is why so many young people are hoping to enter it as a profession. There are nine institutions in B.C. offering degrees in education. They graduate about 1,800 students each year. The numbers are swelled by a further 800 to 900 each year from outside the province, who apply for, and receive, teaching certificates.
This supply is matched against about 1,000 positions available. Well over half of all young people who wish to become teachers, and who spend years training to become teachers, will never have a chance to be one. Getting a job as a teacher in B.C. is a privilege in itself.
Education is the responsibility of the provincial government. That includes establishing the curriculum, setting the standards for its delivery and monitoring the performance of each and every school in B.C. No aspect of that responsibility should be compromised or delegated to any other body, especially to a closed-shop labour union such as the BCTF.
B.C. taxpayers, and particularly those with children in the school system, should consider whether any public interest has been served by the creation of such a union.
Fred Carrothers, the legendary law professor at the University of B.C., who made a specialty of labour negotiations, once told me, "the job of union leaders is not to obtain their fair share, but to get as much more of their fair share as is humanly possible."
This is not to condemn the process. It is only to understand that this is the job of union leaders.
Are teachers better off because of BCTF union demands? Probably not, because they will always have to remain within the framework of all government unions.
Would they have been better off remaining as professionals outside this framework? My guess is yes.
Dr. Patrick McGeer, a distinguished neurology researcher at the University of B.C. and former Olympian, served as an MLA from 1962 to 1986, the last 10 years as a cabinet minister.
作者: victoriarain    时间: 2014-6-24 20:03

唉,Summer School 也有可能取消。

想想那些留学生每年缴那么多钱,教师或者政府不知对这个群体有没有个交代?
作者: sinclair    时间: 2014-6-25 07:43     标题: 回复 32# 的帖子

事关收入,早已捉襟见肘的政府怎么可能没有交代。政府已经申请把summer school 当成essential service,表面上说10-12年级学生需要补学分或者补考,不知道这个比例有多高。其实是为了留学生的钱吧。话说学生正常的education不算essential service。Summer school倒是essential service了。

Striking teachers may be headed to summer school
Vancouver Sun

"We need teachers to be able to provide summer school," he said.
There could be a big impact on students if summer classes are cancelled, said Strachan, because many students chose their fall classes this month on the assumption they could pick up required credits this summer if necessary.
Also caught up in the uncertainty are international students, who pay between $620 to $1,300 per summer course in Vancouver. In Surrey, the international rate is $800 for a full credit, and in Victoria it is $750.
Many international students have already purchased airline tickets and paid for home stays, and if they arrive to find B.C.'s summer schools cancelled it will hurt the province's reputation, said Bacchus.
"It's an incredibly competitive market for international students all over the world and if we have students arriving here to find they have no classes that is going to do some harm to our ability in the future to attract students."
作者: Okb2139    时间: 2014-7-7 17:51

老师罢工太可误!
作者: mythljd    时间: 2014-9-3 20:32     标题: 回复 14# 的帖子

支持!强烈支持!什么P发达国家?为了自己私利连孩子的教育问题都可以拿来当谈判的筹码!可苦了孩子们了!试问难道老师都没有学龄孩子吗?
作者: mythljd    时间: 2014-9-3 20:36     标题: 回复 34# 的帖子

非常可恶!真是做事没一点原则和规矩了,说他妈罢工就罢工,又不是吃不起饭了!什么PO灵魂工程师!真让人搞不懂,今天出去,还看到很多老师挂着牌子,站在每个十字路口,对着每辆过往的车子招手引起注意,感觉一副丑恶嘴脸!哪有老师的典范样子?建议所有罢工的校长都开除!
作者: mythljd    时间: 2014-9-3 20:38     标题: 回复 27# 的帖子

哪里有?我也签字
作者: mythljd    时间: 2014-9-3 20:41     标题: 回复 21# 的帖子

哪里有组织反对老师罢工的发个帖子在这里,我也参加啊!两个孩子呆在家里都不能上课,心疼死了,都说来到这里为了孩子的教育,结果这里的教育真让人寒心!老师为了几个臭钱竟然置孩子的教育于不顾.可恶至极!
作者: mm0220    时间: 2014-9-3 20:50

这里人太少了
作者: 灭绝师太    时间: 2014-9-3 21:15

其实这个话题我没资格参与,但是凑巧今儿遇到一位“相关”人士,学生的家长们,据小道消息......octber 估计能开学......还是做好心理准备吧
作者: XWZ    时间: 2014-9-4 10:04

永远没有满足的时候,痛恨老师,打着“为了孩子有更好的教育”的幌子捞取自己的利益,牺牲孩子受教育的基本权益。这是什么教育工作者,应该追究他们的法律责任,赔赏给孩子造成的损失。实际在老师的这样持续罢工的影响下,多而不少的给孩子的心理造成了一定影响。也影响到家长无法安心工作。
作者: victoriarain    时间: 2014-9-4 11:40

全省的孩子不能上学,教师和政府都能沉得住气,闻所未闻。
作者: victoriarain    时间: 2014-9-4 13:23

不是因为自己的孩子不在公立学校才不着急。在国内,这些头目还不得引咎辞职?




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